Complete article
Screen shot here for in case the article gets lost

Paypal Problems.

Below here I report the problem cases I personally had with Paypal, and the future cases I expect to have. It amazed me how "problems" come without any warning. If they want a copy of my passport, they just block my account (Meaning keep MY MONEY for themself) and then tell me what to do in order to get it back. Note, I have an excellent record with Paypal. When I read in the internet about the stories about blocked accounts, law suits, and the lost payments, I always thought these people were to blame for it themselves. And I thought they would never do this to me. However over the years I have collected my own experiences, and I decided to publish my personal opinion here.

Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like.

Case

Paypal faked he truth.

Yesterday, I withdrew an amount from my Paypal account, which was 5x larger than normal. I learned my lesson. So I'll never do that again, as it alerts Paypal computer systems. So basically that is good if such an action alerts them, but the PROBLEM here is what they do. They tell me not the truth, and start some kind of action to "find out things" about me. 10 hours after withdrawing this 5x l higher amount from Paypal, I could not log in normally any more.

But log in IS NOT WORKING any more. There is suspected illegal access to my account, Paypal says. They say, I have to change my password first.

Now, HERE comes the moment I do not trust it myself any more. Because I have a SYMANTEC INDENTITY PROTECTION generator, which I always use. So they can see that. This is a professional tool, which requires a special code BEFORE every log in. However, this time, there was no SYMANTEC INDENTITY PROTECTION needed any more. So all normal protection levels were skipped! This looked extremely suspicious and careless to me.

I mean, a good was for password fishing, is let users change their password, and spy the keyboard out. Naturally, that would requite a password change BEFORE log in. So only a fool would do so. I decided not to go ahead with this, I am not retarded. So I closed the browser, re- open etc. But whatever I try.... it always comes down to this highly unusual request, to change my password before log in. VERY strange. I decided not to do this.

Perhaps my browser was hacked..???

Then I use the TOR browser instead. Because it's really not logical two browsers are hacked at the same time. And look what happens: The "possible" hack of my account is still reported by Paypal, but this time I have to verify myself with an SMS. This time now, paypal takes the effort to identify itself, because it shows some of the digits of my mobile phone number, which a password fishing virus can not know. So I went for this, let them send me the SMS, used the SMS code, and then changed my password, before log in, and it was all accepted, and I had access to my account again.

What is extremely disturbing about this:

  1. Just suppose they REALLY think my account was hacked, what is the problem TELLING ME RIGHT AWAY? So in case you expect this to happen, I can tell you they didn't do so with me. So far for their security.
  2. Why the hell do they wait until I want to log in, and then start this computer bla bla with me.

IMPORTANT:

Never leave or withdraw a "higher than normal" amount of money on Paypal. This seems just one step away from them blocking your account. They did not tell me the truth about why they were doing. Moreover, they act careless with the log in procedure, bypassing the SYMANTEC INDENTITY PROTECTION generator, specially if there is what they say "suspicious activity". They required me to change your password BEFORE actually log in. My personal opinion about this: It is a stupid, careless, and wrong process. I understand what triggered this, and they tell me some fake story about illegal use of my account.

Of course Paypal would simply throw it away, when I gave them some advise, so at least when I write it here, some people think about it. A safe way to go in such cases, would be to let the user perform the normal log in, and THEN say something about additional account verification. But no, Paypal chooses to have the behavior same as any password fishing virus. I mean all warnings in the internet, tell you NOT to enter your password just because the website unexpectedly requires this for "safety" reasons. They always say: DON'T DO THAT. And then at Paypal this a standard request. I just don't get it. If you understand this, you understand more than I do! Read the other cases too. One is more ignorant than the other.

Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. So when I call something a lie, I only mean to say it was not true.

Case

Money was confiscated for wrong reason.
Paypal never said sorry.

We had a payment from Russia, and for some reason, the buyer had to split the payment in two. Both payments had the regular "ok you can send the goods now" green mark on it, and so I send the goods the same day. Let's call this person Vladimir, but his name was another.

The next day, both payments were removed from my account, and I received an email that Paypal suspected Vladimir of illegal money laundry activities. Now that is curious, because I know him since years, it is a totally down to earth, normal engineer with a day time job, and we are on the phone sometimes to talk about triodes and electrical circuits. Just look at the legal aspects of what Paypal is doing. They are making accusations about money laundry, and both my business partners and me get involved in such accusations. As we learned later, this was a free invented story by Paypal. Something like Alice in Wonderland. I asked Vladimir about this, and was not informed by from Paypal that he was accused of illegal activities (money laundry). But behind his back, THEY WRITE THIS TO HIS MATERIAL SUPPLIER . So he was mad as hell about Paypal producing fake information like this. Moreover, it was based on nothing whatsoever, as we will see later. So yes, I we call this a lie by Paypal, because a lie is telling something which is faked information.

So what to do now... The usual reaction of people is of course to call Paypal. You come in a waiting loop, and then get connected to some student who says: "Hi this is Michelle, how can I help you", and not help you at all. No, not like this. Instead of that, I just called Vladimir, since I know him anyway.

And then we had the truth coming!

All they wanted from Vladimir, was a copy of his electricity bill, and he said he in dispute with Paypal about it. He said it was non of their bloody business what is on his electricity bill.

Now I work a bit longer with Paypal myself, and I remember I had to give my electricity bill too, and initially I had the same initial reaction as Vladimir. Let them go to hell with that request. I don't know of course if they approached my business partners, saying I was doing illegal things, but I know from this case here, it may just be possible they do so. Well, after a while they partially froze my account. I could get money in, but payment was only a miniature amount per month. Can't remember it exactly but say like 25$ per month. Yes, I remember the feeling, and how I felt screwed. Paypal seem to have a list, and when you haven't given them something for a while, they just begin new trouble, and want another item of that list. For myself, the first thing on that list was indeed my electricity bill. Later I had to tell the name of my father, and then the name of my cat. This is not joke! I have no cat, but I just gave them a cat name, and it satisfied them for a while. After some years, this "problem making" game ended with having to send a copy of my passport, and I never had to send them anything afterwards any more.

Sooooo.... I advised him to give Paypal a copy of his electricity bill, and indeed that solved the problem.

And now, he was not suspected any more of money laundry activities any more, and Paypal gave me back my money one week later. The only "shit" that resulted from this, when Paypal served themself via my credit card, and the credit card charged my bank account , and my bank account became negative because of this (pirate) action. So what about the COST FOR THAT. All that went wrong, is my customer refused to give them his electricity bill. Well, I decided NOT to waist my time with Paypal as they have their won ethics anyway. Instead invest the time here, so everybody can see it.

MY ISSUES WITH THIS ARE MANY:

  1. When Paypal says: "All is ok. You can send the goods now" they EXPECTED me to do this, and so I did. This is what they WANTED TO HAPPEN. Simply because if they say, careful before shipment, this guy is a money laundry, I would not have shipped. So they use ON PURPOSE my shipment, so to say the goods that become suddenly unpaid.
  2. Making false accusations, is illegal in all civilized countries, but Paypal is just doing so. In reality they took the opportunity of this larger payment, to put Vladimir in the cooking pot and boil him soft. Only thing is, the cooking pot is me. My issue with Paypal is not, they want a copy of his electricity bill, since that is none of my business. My issue is, they put me in front of their wagon as their donkey, and use the quite expensive goods for it, which they let me ship without payment - and the problem is, they do so KNOWINGLY.
  3. Paypal says nothing to me what it is REALLY about, and tells me dirty lies about my customer instead.
  4. Such things damage customer relations. I would not blame this person if it was the last time he bought something from me. (p.s. I revised it here with this text, now four years later, and yes it was indeed the last time he ever bought something from me. . So yes, SHAME on Paypal. )
  5. Paypal did not treat my customer's personal information confidential. This is absolutely disgusting. They just inform third parties about possible illegal activities by email, which activity never took place, and the whole situation was one big fake, by Paypal themself.
  6. The communication was quickly deleted from the Paypal site, after the "case" was solved, but I have screen shots of everything.

Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. So when I call something a lie, I only mean to say it was not true.

 

Case

The person who send me money, had his account was blocked for wrong reasons. Paypal never said sorry.

We had a normal payment, and I had this green check box in Paypal saying "ok you can send the goods now".The next day, the payment was GONE. Paypal grabbed the money out of my account AGAIN. The green check box was gone, and a paypal email arrived, saying the buyer's account was hacked, and he may not have authorized the payment.

Too bad for PAYPAL was my initial thought. Don't they always say the payments are SAFE, and Paypal takes the risks with the credit card, as long as you ship to the official buyers's address? Doesn't that sound kind of familiar, from reading your paypal messages? Well I learned here this is definitely not so. Now they have a problem here fro themself, so a Paypal account of my CUSTOMER was hacked, not my account And then, first thing Paypal does, let ME PAY FOR IT.

Look what they did:

  1. They let me send the goods. The green check box appears on their website. The one you need to check.
  2. Then one day later (same as previous case) they write me, something fraudulent is going on. But now look here.... If the buyer's account was hacked, does that mean I DID THAT? And YES they tried to let me pay the damage. Read next line...
  3. Paypal files a conflict between me and the buyer. So read this carefully. PAYPAL FILED THE CONFLICT. Not me, or my customer. Paypal takes the money out of my account, because that's normal with a conflict, isn't it? So the idea is now, I have to go through the "conflict process". Later on, we will see the story about the account hack was a lie.

So what do I do? Again not what they expect. I mean, I can use the dispute process, after that comes the e conflict process, and after that comes the "let Paypal decide process". Did I want to go through this mess? No! So I just took the phone and called the buyer. Now that was a good idea! He was just in the phone book. It was a totally normal man, living in an apartment in Stockholm. He heard my name, and he was as surprised as I was. It didn't take long, and he told me: don't worry, I just put the conflict on resolved, and then they should release the payment. Besides, he didn't file the conflict, so for him it was no problem to set it on resolved. Moreover, he was happy with the goods, and he WANTED me to get the payment as soon as possible of course. that. We are both normal persons.

But now comes the surprise. After trying to go into his account he found it blocked! He was NOT ALLOWED TO RESOLVE IT.

THEN... it appeared he had to go through the "enhanced" address verification. By itself no problem and a normal request by paypal. The conflict Paypal invented, about the "so called" hacked account vanished into the air. The dirty part here, they deleted it from the conflict center! However, since I made screen shots of the whole mess, I can prove it, it is down below here. This was really very dirty.

So to compact the situation:

  • Paypal says, the buyers account was hacked. To make it look like I did that, they filed a dispute by the BUYER against me.
  • My money is gone.
  • The buyer needs to do enhanced address verification, and then..
  • The conflict with me does not only get solved, the history about this gets erased. (BUT.... I have saved screen shots of it )

MY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS:

1) Why do they wait until I have a payment here, and then say "all is ok"? WHY? Well I know why, but I still ask the reader here.

2) Why do they file a conflict with the buyer one day later? This is illegal use of my personality, and my personal data. So they try to act as if they were me. That can't be legal in any country of the world.

3) It appeared all the buyer had to do, was go through "enhanced" address verification. By itself no problem and a normal request by paypal. The conflict against me, about the "so called" hacked account vanished into the air. I can not see it any more in the conflict center. All I have is the emails about it.

Here is a extracted translation of what paypal send me in German

Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. So when I call something a lie, I only mean to say it was not true.


Case

Paypal never said sorry.

THIS IS THE CRAZIEST AND MOST DISSAPOINTING PAYPAL CASE I EVER HAD. IT ALL BEGAN WHEN I WAS ASKED BY THE BUYER TO FRAUD MY INSURANCE COMPANY, AFTER HE RECEIVED THE GOODS IN GOOD ORDER.

Now, some may even go for it. Not me. So I replied to the buyer. No, I will not fraud my insurance. I have copies of all of this, and even SEND THAT TO PAYPAL. You would think that clears the case, right? No sir! You are mistaken. Paypal IGNORED that information, I send it THREE times. Three times it was ignored.

Here is the email of the fraud proposal But it's better to read the whole text here, so you get a better picture of how PAYPAL in the end tried to make me pay.

So now what happens.... At first I say: No sorry, no insurance fraud please.

DIRECTLY after this, the buyer files a complaint at paypal that I send him broken products. Mind you, he send me emails before, the goods arrived in good order. And yes, I send that to Paypal. Guess what... Do you think they read it, or they ignore it? Do I have to tell you?

THE RESULT WAS, PAYPAL SAID THE BUYER WAS RIGHT. THEY MUST HAVE MAGIC VISION AT PAYPAL, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT ASK ME AT ALL, AND YET KNOW THE FULL TRUTH BY MAGIC VISION POWER. EVEN HARRY POTTER NEEDS A CRYSTAL BOWL, BUT PAYPAL CAN DO MAGIC WITHOUT IT.

I TRIED EVERYTHING, BUT THEY SAID I SEND BROKEN PRODUCTS, PERIOD. AND WHEN PAYPAL SAIS SO, THAT'S HOW IT IS. NOW THAT IS CURIOUS, BECAUSE I HAVE SEVERAL EMAILS OF THE BUYER SAYING TEH GOODS WER RECEIVED WELL. . THEN THE WHOLE DISPUTE MACHINE (SOFTWARE) STARTED, AND EACH TIME I ENTERED AN INFORMATION, LIKE FOR INSTANCE THE "OK" EMAIL OF THE BUYER, IT GETS MORE PERVERTED! EACH TIME I ENTER SOMETHING (IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT) THE SYSTEM DECIDES AGAINST ME WITHIN JUST SECONDS, AND WANTS TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP, UNTIL AT THE FINAL STEP MY MONEY WAS PERMANENTLY GONE.

SO NOW I TOOK A LAWYER.

HE TOLD ME IF THE BUYER DID NOT PAY, IT CAN BE BROUGHT IN COURT, AND A NORMAL JUDGE WILL NOT FOLLOW PAYPAL'S DECISION, BUT MAKE HIS OWN. SO THE LAWSUIT IS AGAINST THE BUYER, NOT AGAINST PAYPAL. TO HAVE A BEGINNING FOR THIS, HE ADVISED ME TO SEND A FORMAL OBJECTION TO PAYPAL AND TO THE BUYER, AND GIVE WHATEVER REPLY TO HIM, AND NOT ANSWER IT MYSELF.

AFTER THIS I WAS SEND A RUDE EMAIL BY THE BUYER, HE WILL NEVER PAY ME. NOW THIS WAS WHAT JUST WHAT MY LAYWER WANTED HIM TO SAY. THANK YOU, Mr. LAWRENCE:)

THE SURPRIZE CAME FROM PAYPAL. I ASKED FOR A FORMAL REPLY BY EMAIL, AND THE REASONS. THEY MUST HAVE SMELLED IT. A WOMEN FROM PAYPAL CONTACTS ME AS SWEET AS A PUSSYCAT. SHE RE-OPENS THE "PERMANENTLY CLOSED" CASE. SIX WEEKS LATER I HAVE MY MONEY BACK, BUT ONLY PARTIALLY THE SHIPMENT COST.

HEY.... LOOK INTO THE DOCUMENTS I SHOW YOU HERE. A CHILD CAN SEE I WAS FRAUDED BY THE BUYER.

Paypal never said sorry.

As we all know, Paypal is not only protecting honest buyers against fraudulent sellers. The also claim to protect honest sellers against fraudulent buyers, right? Well I thought so until now. Just look what can happen to an honest seller, who gets in contact with a fraudulent buyer!!!

The buyer, Mr. Richard M.L. from the USA bought quite fragile items from me. They were of the kind you need only one pair of. Then interestingly after half a year he reported they were so excellent he wanted to a spare set. Wow.... 600 Euro to store a spare set on the shelf, and never use it? Hard to believe. The way he wrote his emails made my stomach feel funny. He was so nice, his words so well chosen, too nice. had this strange feeling about trouble coming up. Perhaps you sometimes have this also. An alert lamp inside my head started to burn. So, I prepared from the beginning to make no mistake. I triple boxed it, with the outer box being a SIX-layered box. The box was so strong, I could stand on it! To prove this, for in case I had to, I have pictures of this!!!! So nobody can claim bad packaging. In there was the second shipment carton of a normal kind. And in there was a factory carton with the products, and in there were thick foam cushions. All of this nicely pictured before shipment and well documented. So you think I was safe? Read the rest, and be amazed!

   

Right after receiving the delivery, problems began. The buyer wrote me, the box showed extreme signs of mistreatment. Never ever in his life he has seen something terrible as this. Curiously, he did NOT report this to the carrier company.

So I retro-reported the damage over here in Germany, which is the wrong place on earth since the boxes are in the USA. Well they were generous to me, I have a platinum account with them. We were advised to open the box anyway, since it was virtually impossible to damage the contents. And INDEED :) the second, internal carton came out undamaged, as reported personally by the buyer, by email. FROM NOW ON, STRANGE THINGS STARTED TO HAPPEN

Screen shot of the good receival confirmation here

So... The contents came out undamaged. BUT..... the buyer still wanted to send it back. The objection was, he didn't trust the parts to be good with the outer box damage. So he had a specialist look at it. After the testing, he confirms the parts work perfect.

Screen shot of a specialist's "ok products" report here

But... the buyer did not give up. So the box was elephant proof, and the goods were confirmed ok. Now read this! He suggest to me, we fraud the insurance company. With the money that he puts in my pockets that way, he will make a deal with me. Unbelievable, he plain writes me that by email, leaving written proof. Too bad for him, I refused his deal.

Screen shot of this fraud proposal here

I REPORTED THIS TO PAYPAL.

So we are in a situation now, where the buyer received the items. He confirmed good function himself. He reported a positive test by a specialist. If you think the case is closed now, you are mistaken!

THEN: FOR TWO WEEKS HE USES THE ITEMS. NO PROBLEMS ARISE.

Then, more than two weeks later he reports the items to Paypal as non conforming products. Meaning he did not receive what he bought. A long and MOST REMARKABLE PROCESS AT PAYPAL STARTS, AND THIS IS WHAT THIS CASE IS ABOUT.

Screen shot of problems reported here.

 
Step1:

First, the money is grabbed out of my account The usual Paypal behavior.

Of course I object, and file some of the above screen shots ar Paypal. Directly after I file the last screen shot, (same as you can see above here) I expected somebody to contact me, to give me the money back. Instead of this, the program automatically continues with Step2.

 

Step2:

The program writes me the buyer may send back the goods. When I receive the goods I should confirm.

Step3:

Glass items arrive here 48 hours later, totally crushed, simply in a book package. Crushed Glass pieces fell out after opening it. Mind you, I send it myself in a HUGE box of 60x40x40cm, triple boxed.

I object at Paypal against this silly packaging method. I say it was deliberately send this way, to have it damaged. All Paypal did, was use my objection as receival conformation. So the logic was, when I complain about a bad package, I must have received it.

NOW READ THIS. Immediately after I file this objection, with large size pictures of the excellent the way i send it, and crazy the way I received it, AGAIN THE PROGRAM TAKES THE NEXT STEP, NOT REPONDING TO MY INFORMATION. The case is now closed. They say: OK! You confirm to have received the goods, and SO the buyer gets his money back, and they say this decision is final.

Step4:

I posted this case on a forum, and also asked my lawyer. He tells me: Object by normal Email to Paypal.

Step5:

Interestingly.... Now here in Germany someone adopts the case. A woman from Paypal Germany called the center in the USA, to ask for a case re-open.

Paypal re-opens the " permanently decided and closed" case.

Step6: I have to send the items to the USA. On my own cost.
Step7:

After the goods arrive, I received my money back. However 50 Euro shipment cost are lost, and l lost are many hours of email writing to paypal. Also lost is my confidence in the sellers protection process.

Some interesting additional information. Two years later I spoke about this case with somebody from New York, that I know very well. Just chatting a little bit about some Paypal cases he had as well. Now guess what... He knew that man! He buys stuff from my New York friend as well. The world is small. That is how I found out, Mr. Richard M.L. is a lawyer! Well THAT explains it a little bit. He even proposed my by Email to fraud the shipment company and share the difference. Can you believe that for a lawyer?! Look here.

Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. So when I call something a lie, I only mean to say it was not true.

 

Case

My own account got blocked just to force me to send a document, while
they never asked for the document before.

At Dec 31st 2011 my account gets blocked without any warning.

Wouldn't it be better to say: please sir, send us some required information within three weeks, or we have to block you account. No they didn't do that. It was simply BLOCKED just like that. I can't get have my money any more, and AFTER that, they tell me what things to do, and what to send them, in order to get my money back.

As Paypal always makes the communication disappear afterwards, by routine I begin to make screen shots now.

Screen shot

This is a screen shot of some of the things they may want to know. Like Paypal wants a copy of your tax declaration, or a copy of the profit calculation when you are a company. Oh, and it has to be by a certified bookkeeper. If you don't give it, they keep your money. It my case the document was a copy of my passport.

Screen shot 1

Screen shot 2

SURPRIZE, SURPRIZE....

The dialog that generates the above screens has suddenly vanished from my account. So not even possible to prove in court, if you would have to. But don't worry, I made enough screen shots :)

Jan 2nd. After solving only three of the four tasks they gave me,

First task completed was: Change my password

Second task completed was: I needed to give Paypal my cat's name. (This is not a joke!!!!!) and the name of my father.

Third task completed was: Send a copy of my Passport.

Suddenly my account. is reactivated again.

I immediately took out all the money. That worked.

I do not think the name of my cat (I don't even have one...) was important for them. Also the name of my father can not be so important that it is worth to block people's account. if they don't want to say. So I think all the wanted was a copy of my passport.

My issue with this:

WHY NOT JUST TELL ME SO, if the need the name of my Cat? This is all no problem to give. By the way, I have no cat. Her name is imaginary, because paypal wanted to have the name of one of my pets. They accepted the name of my virtual cat. (AGAIN... THIS IS NOT A JOKE)

A copy of my passport, they also wanted to have.

Now any decent bank wants a copy of your passport from the beginning. It is really curious Paypal worked without it anything at all since 10 years, then suddenly wants my electricity bill, and some after that suddenly make an issue about having no copy of my passport.

Why out of the blue, suddenly block my account., as if I am an uncooperative puke. IF YOU KNOW THE ANSWER.... YOU KNOW MORE THAN I DO.

 

 

So now they have my passport, and you would think they make no more troubles, right? Well you are wrong!

Jan4th

SURPRIZE

Today my account. is suddenly "limited" and I am not verified any more.

Screen shot

Jan4th

Well this was easy to fix, by entering the control code they used to remove 1.50 Euro from my credit card.

Screen shot

Mind you, they do this with a 10 years old account. and a flawless record.

Conclusion1: They DO NOT ASK in a normal fashion for what they need. Without any form of communication, they block access to your money, so you will become active.

Conclusion 2: Paypal just opens a conflict between seller an buyer, which conflict is not existent. I find this extremely unashamed and rude of Paypal, so "construct" trouble between buyer and seller. I have lost at least one good customer because of this.

Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. So when I call something a lie, I only mean to say it was not true.

 

 

Case

So here we go, the next case. This is simple one, and it shows how Paypal encourages sick buyers to behave as they do.

The sales

The buyer is Andy Coxxxn living in the city called "Commerce township" in USA. (his name x-ed out). He buys 60 years old, but never used electron tubes. Four pieces. After using them for six weeks, he complains two of them have gone bad. (to his personal opinion). Mind you, these were guaranteed to be only good on arrival, without lifetime guarantee, and he got that in writing on the price offer, and on the invoice.

He sends back the tubes, but I see nothing wrong with them. They test perfect, they are simply GOOD. The wants the full payment back, no discussion. This is not right, because he received unused products, used them for 6 weeks, and sends me back used products. I offered him, to refund the original payment, minus the costs he generated. That is: minus cost of re-testing, and minus cost for using new products for 6 weeks, and minus shipment. Mind you, he used the products for 6 weeks to his satisfaction, and then suddenly he sais they went bad, and there was no guarantee on the products. Moreover, I found nothing wrong with the products, after I got them back here, it's just he changed ensued products into used products, and we all know that changes their value drastically.

So how does this continue?
The money back

The buyer payed 245 Euro for four pieces. He sends me back two pieces only. Value 120 Euro. To begin with this is against all rules. Either you reverse the sales, or you don't.

The fee for re-testing is 15 Euro per tube. The fee for changing new tubes into used ones is 15 Euro per tube. So this generates costs of 60 Euro. So ok, this costs money, but then you should send back immediately things that you don't want to keep, and not use it 6 weeks.

The dispute The buyer disagrees. My Costs and my work for re-testing and turning new goods into used, is my personal problem. He thinks I have to do this for free. So he wants full 120 Euro back and not 60 Euro.
Paypal complaint, 12 weeks after sending the goods.

Now, 12 weeks after payment, he files a complaint. 12 weeks after!

So he already has received 60 Euro send back, it was by a separate payment. Now he becomes fraudulent. He files a dispute for the full original transaction of 245 Euro, he "forgets" to mention I send him already he 60 Euro he got back, and "forgets" to mention he has a return shipment number of course, but in there he put only HALF of the original shipment. So look what this fraud is doing! He files a request to get the full transaction price back, already puts 60 Euro in his pocket from me, and kept half the goods. How sick must a person be, to try this at all. Of course we are going to let the honest people of paypal make the right decision.

I react normal So here we go: There is a "paypal complaint" in my account. So what does a normal seller do? You guessed it right. We answer to the complaint.
What does paypal do?

From here it becomes extremely WEIRD. So look what happens.

So to say it again: The buyer has received back from me 60 Euro already, send back half of the goods only, and now he wants the full payment back. Do you think Paypal will support this?

So here we go....

After filing my response in the Paypal system, instantaneously the case jumps to:

"buyer can send back the goods"

HUH??? At think I must have I clicked some wrong buttons. So let's call paypal. (See the next box)

I react normal

I call Paypal about it. No waiting time. (VEEEERY STRANGE)

A friendly, German speaking lady understands my case completely, and files it internally in English writing, and sends this to the person in the USA, working on the complaint. So this was very good, it was a perfectly normal person. She will solve it for me, I don't need to worry.

What does paypal do?

STRANGE: Some days later, a computerized question comes in. "Did I already receive the goods or not?". Also it writes: If I do not answer, the case will be closed in my disadvantage.

I react normal What does a normal person do....? So here we go, I explain it by email again. A friendly answer comes back. A person writes me, when 50% of the goods did not arrive, I must go to the police, and file a theft complaint there.
What does paypal do? STRANGE: They write me again, when 50% of the goods did not arrive, I must go to the police, and file a theft complaint there.
I react normal What does a normal person do? I explain it again. No, no, no dear Paypal, it was not 50% stolen. The BUYER just kept 50% and wants half of his money back. He wrote me even so by email.
What does paypal do? STRANGE: They write me, the case has decided against me. Period. I have to confirm if I received back the shipment in good order. If not, I must write what is the problem, to a special email address.
I react normal

O god.... they absolutely do not understand not what they are doing. But I understand I am going to loose 245 Euro + 60 Euro + half of the goods.

What does paypal do?

FINALLY: Well, after I called them, I got a normal person on the phone. He asks me if he can record this conversation for quality purposes. I said yes, but then I also record the call, and he agrees.

He understands now the unashamed behavior of the buyer and says I am right with what I did. I have to wait. He will work this out.

What does paypal do?

RESOLVED: I have to pay nothing. Paypal pays the 60 Euro in their behalf. So far so good.

Paypal smeared my seller profile BUT: The case was decided in the advantage of the buyer. My seller profile gets smeared with this case, though I did nothing wrong, and I had no financial loss. The buyer came out of this game with 60 Euro profit. You can bet he learned what is the right process to use new goods for six weeks, and then send them back in used condition.
 

What was my mistake?

Conclusion 1) : Never offer a compromise. When dealing with paypal problem, be radical same as Paypal. Just don't give a damn what others say or do, and , and target straight away for a win-loose situation, and do not try to work out a friendly solution, and others are just waiting for this kind of naive behavior.

So this takes us to conclusion #2 about paypal problems:

Conclusion 2) : If the seller wants to complain, only accept a complete return of the goods. Then, when you do not receive it back as you send it, all you need to do is prove that, and you are the winner.

BAD RISK

Suppose you receive back the package, but something is missing. As buyers are honest by default, and you say the same about yourself, there can only be one answer: The post office stole the goods out of the package! So you need to go to the police, and you have to send Paypal a copy of the stolen goods report. If you do not bring this within 10 days, they case will be closed against you. I received a lovely standardized email about that.

THIS IS A TRAP!

When you would bring that report, they say: thank you! And then:

Back shipment is on the risk on the seller. Case is closed against you.

This is how it works.

I don't have to explain here what happens if buyer sees such processes only a a game he needs to win.

 

Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. So when I call something a lie, I only mean to say it was not true.


What follows next are just some interesting links I found in the internet. I am not responsible for those links or the contents

Paypal complaints. (Very good site)

Paypalsucks

Paypal Horror Stories

Paypalwarning

PayPal Probleme: Deutschland

Paypal Problems: Canada

Paypal Errors

Just say No to Paypal

Paypal Sammelklage: Deutschland

Consumer Alert: PayPal Problems

PAYPAL PROBLEMS on Face book


Click here to get a list of 92.000.000 links about "Paypal Problems"

Click here for 94.000 "Paypal Problems" Videos on Youtube

* These numbers are just as seen when I tried it. These number are variable.


Disclaimer: I am aware paypal is fully honest to me and the rest of the world. The above texts is only my personal opinion about an issue that I did not like. So when I call something a lie, I only mean to say it was not true.